UNC and Duke

haha Calipari is far from the only one...but he is the only one we are talking about

he's not the worst in the game right now, but definitely top 5 in a group where that's really saying something

if you want to discuss Dave Bliss, Jim Calhoun, Rick Stansbury, Kelvin Sampson, et al then we can do that as well...but we're talking John Calipari, so his transgressions are very relevant to the discussion

the college basketball system is deep into corruption, and it's good that the NCAA is starting to finally make rules to hopefully correct some of the problems for the time being, but they are severely understaffed so enforcement of the rules they produce will be difficult whatever they decide to do

As much as myself and Drew have disagreed on things in the past, you kinda have to take his word on a lot of this. He's a lot closer to people who would know for sure what things have/haven't happened in CBB than any of us on this board are. I'm not saying we're all dumb and he's smart (far from it, lol), but he's more informed and connected.

Plus, I don't think Drew has any reason to talk bad about some of these coaches out of spite/hatred for them, esp. considering that one of them could easily offer him a job someday on their staff w/his background. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't cut off his nose to spite his face.

i dont want to sound like an ass, but why should I believe an assistant JV coach at a school knows what goes on behind closed doors at big time schools like UK or UNC? drew im really not taking shots at you at all, but i do find it hard to believe that someone who isnt close to the situation at all can have all this inside info that could do major damage to a school and a coach


heres my final words

if there is all this evidence out there that Cal is doing wrong, no one is immune, UK sure isnt immune, they got theirs a few years ago when the money fell out at the airport or whatever.

if it was as obvious as you guys are trying to say, then Cal should have already been punished, right?

phil fulmer was an NCAA informant in a HUGE case, and all his talk was just talk, there was no evidence, ive seen the papers.

So if a coach could testify off the record, and he be a confidential informant, which the NCAA doe use, why arent tons of people lining up to testify against Cal?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CoeburnCane

As much as myself and Drew have disagreed on things in the past, you kinda have to take his word on a lot of this. He's a lot closer to people who would know for sure what things have/haven't happened in CBB than any of us on this board are. I'm not saying we're all dumb and he's smart (far from it, lol), but he's more informed and connected.

Plus, I don't think Drew has any reason to talk bad about some of these coaches out of spite/hatred for them, esp. considering that one of them could easily offer him a job someday on their staff w/his background. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't cut off his nose to spite his face.

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in all due respect to both you and him, i disagree.

it really doesn't matter to me one way or the other if you believe I'm connected or not...I know you're not taking shots at me Biggin, I'd be a little skeptical too, but I'm very confident in my information as it comes from people who have recruited against Calipari for many years and one assistant under Calipari at UMass the year before their Final Four run

I've said it before on this thread and I'll say it again...Calipari is not the only problem or the biggest problem, but he's certainly not a part of the solution...I say this as someone who LOVED the Memphis team that played in the finals a couple years back, if you can go and read my posts about that team then you'll find I loved watching that team play...I love watching UK play every time they are on TV as well, I really like John Wall...I think the offense Calipari got from Vance Walberg will revolutionize the game of basketball...Calipari is a good coach, which is why it puzzles me that he has to deal with guys like Wesley

my bottom line for the whole argument is just that Roy Williams is better at this point, and has done so while running one of the cleanest programs around...and that's something when tons of schools around you are cheating

I just don't get how this somehow puts Cal above Roy? Seriously, it's still not even close, not within miles. Hell look at the SOS this year, look at the teams(who's rebuilding and who isn't) also, if Cal were to win it all this year...it still wouldn't put him above Roy. In a few years Roy will have another, while Cals will probably be vacated IF he were to win it this year.

How does the rebuilding issue come into play here?

im a huge unc fan and i dont get the whole "young and rebuilding" as well

Because it's not like UNC has their best team this year, that they aren't rebuilding, that's it's Williams best team against Cals best team. UNC is in a rebuilding year, playing a tough, tough schedule...how does that not account for anything? I mean when comparing the two teams and two coaches this year?

What someone has done, I am not saying he hasnt.

I just know, being a huge fan of the university of kentucky. That every step was taken to ensure no baggage followed Calapari to UK, what he did or did not do at UMASS and Memphis, you are not gonna put the reputation, the tradition, history and oh yeah the bottom line to all of this argument MONEY in the hands of someone you think may set the program back to 1990. Williams is a fine coach, they all are fine coaches (even if he didint win a natl title with Vaughn, Pierce, Pollard, Lafrentz)

I am sure people who are close to anyone who assumes a position of power can point out, unethical, disloyal, even (my gosh...) SHADY aspects to that person. I dont for a second think that Calipari may not be guilty of or is even guilty of some of the things he has been accused of. Its just funny how gets blasted for it so much, (some also because he is at kentucky, some people just hate UK and anything associated with it, us, the fans dont help people in that aspect as well)

Its just like when bob knight choked, that kid, came out and said, ohhhh no i didint do it, then they produced a video of it.

but to argue against unc, uk, duke and ucla is pointless.

sorry fellas, tired of this argument. i am sure of it now, calapari shot don coreleone

Kentucky is basically a rebuild too though, but that part really doesn't matter.

UK has 4 frosh that play major minutes, yet UNC is the one rebuilding?

UNC is a more experienced team than UK, so theres no rebuilding factor.

Cal has consistently won with lesser talent than Roy until this year, and until Roy had him a couple teams full of lottery picks, he never won anything.


Answer me this:

Is it harder to win at Providence or UCLA?

And are there freshman like most freshman? Let's be real, one of them will be taken #1 in the draft next year, I don't think you can be comparing Wall and Mcdonald or something. Technically rebuilding and actually rebuilding with lesser talent is two different things. UNC has 5 fresh playing considerable minutes. We're talking freshman like Wall, Cousins and Bledsoe...that's not really "rebuilding", most would trade their seniors for that trio. UNC has played 7 ranked teams, including the #1,#4, #5(whom they beat) and #6 teams in the nation...UK has played what 2, 3 ranked teams at all? I don't know how in the world this season puts Cal close to Roy on any planet, hell according to the NCAA, Cal has never been to a Final Four.

UNC lost all 5 starters with Ginyard returning. Probably lost 85% if not more of all their scoring from last year. Yes having Davis and Zeller out hurts. However, we are not a good basketball team this year. Freshman or not. When you have freshman going to schools like UNC, UK, Duke..etc, these freshman are no slouches. We're talking 5 * recruits. Being "young" is not an excuse. We don't play well as a team, have no true pg or scorer, and we turn the ball over. Bottom line.

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Originally Posted by R13

And are there freshman like most freshman? Let's be real, one of them will be taken #1 in the draft next year, I don't think you can be comparing Wall and Mcdonald or something. Technically rebuilding and actually rebuilding with lesser talent is two different things. UNC has 5 fresh playing considerable minutes. We're talking freshman like Wall, Cousins and Bledsoe...that's not really "rebuilding", most would trade their seniors for that trio. UNC has played 7 ranked teams, including the #1,#4, #5(whom they beat) and #6 teams in the nation...UK has played what 2, 3 ranked teams at all? I don't know how in the world this season puts Cal close to Roy on any planet, hell according to the NCAA, Cal has never been to a Final Four.

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OK?

UNC doesnt have talent? thats the biggest crock of BS ever

John Henson isnt an NBA player? Ed Davis?

UK only returns one starter as well, depending on the lineup.
UNC has never started 4 frosh this year. They have sophomores, juniors, etc..
UK has ONE upperclassmen that gets more than 20 minutes per game, and thats Patterson, who plays 33 minutes per game.

UK has:
John Wall, frosh, 34 minutes per game
Eric Bledsoe, frosh, 30 MPG
DeMarcus Cousins, frosh, 21 MPG
Darius Miller, sophomore, 24 MPG

Even their backups are young. Darnell Dodson, a soph., gets 15 MPG, and Daniel Orton, a frosh, gets 13 MPG

UK is a younger team than UNC, so that excuse doesnt fly.

and ive never heard someone say UNC doesnt have the talent of any school as a whole.
UNC consistently gets the best of the best.

UNC is just not as good this year. That alone does not mean Cal is a better coach than Roy, not at all
and i dont care about all the cheating speculation, because nothing has been proved, so to me, a better coach is the one who wins the most games possible with their talent level.

and if that is the definition of a great coach, i dont see how Roy is better than Cal TBH. Roy is a GREAT coach, no doubt. He has won two national titles for christ sakes, he is a wonderful coach, one of the best. But Cal is at the same level, and he has never had the amount of talent to work with that Roy has had, until this year.

Would you argue that this year's UNC team is on a higher level talent wise as last year's Memphis team?
both teams had one proven, NBA lottery pick (Tyreke Evans and John Henson)

would you disagree that Ginyard, Davis,Thompson, Zeller, Strickland, Drew, are more talented than Dozier, Antonio Anderson, Donell Mack, Willie Kemp, Shaun Taggert?

I am gonna archive this post, and if UNC makes it further than the Sweet 16 like Memphis did last year, I will make a thread, and tell everyone that Roy Williams is 10x the coach that Cal is.

One more thing, who is the better coach, Roy Williams or Jim Boeheim?

Shoot Cal must not be such a terrible guy, hell President Obama called him and thanked him and praised the UK program for raising $1 million dollars towards Haiti relief lol. but UK did a great thing in the Haiti relief stuff tho.